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Post by Karen Brewer on Feb 13, 2008 16:17:44 GMT -5
Mary Anne has never known Alma, though, that's why I find it difficult for her to be loyal to her mother's memory. If she could remember her mother it would be a different story.
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Post by aln1982 on Feb 13, 2008 17:31:27 GMT -5
^ Agree. To answer Penny Lane's question, I can see MA wanting to stay with Sharon just so she could stay in Stoneybrook. I think, though, this might cause major conflict/problems for her because it would make Verna mad (or at least MA might think it would) so she might end up going out to IA in an attempt to please her but being totally unhappy out there. Also, Dawn would probably be mad (even though she’s in CA….) and they’d have a big fight. That could be an interesting book…. Though I hate thinking of anything happening to Richard as I really like him. Maybe at the end of the book he could come “back from the dead” and that would solve all of the problems. (I’ve watched too many soap operas) ;D
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Post by greer on Feb 14, 2008 0:30:27 GMT -5
I don't think MA would go to Iowa because she was pretty bored there. I think she would stay in Stoneybrook so she could be with her friends. I am sure Verna would come to Stoneybrook for a while, but I can't see MA wanting to go to Iowa where she had no friends and nothing to do make jam and sew quilts.
I wouldn't be surprised if, in his will, that Richard has it written that Sharon would be the legal guardian in the event of his death. I know that my dad and stepmom don't want any of their siblings or my stepmom's parents raising the kids, so in the event of something really terrible happening, my brother and sister will be under the guardianship of my dad's best friend (my brother's godfather) and his partner.
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alula
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 406
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Post by alula on Feb 14, 2008 2:20:18 GMT -5
After this I'm probably going to stay off the thread, because it hits some personal issues for me, but I really think that the word "loyalty" is not entirely accurate or fair. People seem to act as if it's irrational or unreasonable or insincere for Mary Anne to have an emotional connection to her mother. In the same way that lots of people adopted at birth can love their adoptive parents but still feel a need or a desire to know about their birth parents, I think it would be totally natural for Mary Anne to want to preserve her mother's memory and her own identity as the daughter of Richard and Alma Spier. She may not have known Alma personally, but she knows about her, and the more she learns about her it seems like the deeper her feelings get regarding Alma as a person. But I think even in the earliest books there are indications that she thought and wondered about her mom a lot, and moments in which Richard tells her that she reminds him of Alma are very significant to her.
I also don't really see why there would be a need for Sharon to adopt her, and I really don't like the suggestion that doing so would be an indication of "real" love or closeness for either of them. Mary Anne should never, IMO, even have to think about "choosing" between Alma and Sharon. Sharon is not a replacement for Alma; she's a unique person and she and Mary Anne can have a perfectly wonderful relationship as stepmother and stepdaughter. And that's really why I don't think Richard would be thrilled about it either. I'm sure he was thrilled to bring a mother figure into his daughter's life, but I think he would strongly resist, that, for example, Mary Anne's original birth certificate be destroyed and a new one issued (which could certainly happen in a legal adoption process.)
For various reasons, this is really sensitive issue to me, and it's one of the criticisms of Mary Anne that I am really firmly set on defending her against. But it probably means I should stop posting in the thread.
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Post by Karen Brewer on Feb 14, 2008 15:36:40 GMT -5
^Good points. I did forget that my situation was quite different from Mary Anne's.
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Post by aln1982 on Feb 14, 2008 16:25:32 GMT -5
After this I'm probably going to stay off the thread, because it hits some personal issues for me, but I really think that the word "loyalty" is not entirely accurate or fair. People seem to act as if it's irrational or unreasonable or insincere for Mary Anne to have an emotional connection to her mother. In the same way that lots of people adopted at birth can love their adoptive parents but still feel a need or a desire to know about their birth parents, I think it would be totally natural for Mary Anne to want to preserve her mother's memory and her own identity as the daughter of Richard and Alma Spier. She may not have known Alma personally, but she knows about her, and the more she learns about her it seems like the deeper her feelings get regarding Alma as a person. But I think even in the earliest books there are indications that she thought and wondered about her mom a lot, and moments in which Richard tells her that she reminds him of Alma are very significant to her. I also don't really see why there would be a need for Sharon to adopt her, and I really don't like the suggestion that doing so would be an indication of "real" love or closeness for either of them. Mary Anne should never, IMO, even have to think about "choosing" between Alma and Sharon. Sharon is not a replacement for Alma; she's a unique person and she and Mary Anne can have a perfectly wonderful relationship as stepmother and stepdaughter. And that's really why I don't think Richard would be thrilled about it either. I'm sure he was thrilled to bring a mother figure into his daughter's life, but I think he would strongly resist, that, for example, Mary Anne's original birth certificate be destroyed and a new one issued (which could certainly happen in a legal adoption process.) For various reasons, this is really sensitive issue to me, and it's one of the criticisms of Mary Anne that I am really firmly set on defending her against. But it probably means I should stop posting in the thread. Sorry this is a sensitive issue for you, alula. I can relate as I have many issues that are discussed that are sensitive to me (just not this particular one). Anyway, I do agree with you that MA should not try to substitute Sharon for her birth mother. That said, I think she can definitely love Sharon as her own person - a great stepmom or maybe just confidant and friend. As for formal adoption, I see it as a nice way - in some situations - to just make the relationship "legal" and kind of put it out there (if that makes sense ;D) but know it is not for everyone. I have friends who are just as close with their stepparents who haven't legally adopted as well as those who have been. The only difference for them is in the last names (the dads were the ones doing the adopting or not adopting - and both biological dads are still alive) I think you and Karen Brewer both bring up good points from different perspectives. All I would have liked to see (and did) as the books progressed was more closeness between Sharon and MA - not even necessarily as mother and daughter (though some kind of relationship like that would have made me happy ;D) but even just an increased trust and acceptance, which I did see to some degree.
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alula
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 406
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Post by alula on Feb 17, 2008 12:57:10 GMT -5
^thank you.
I really think you might enjoy the FF books about Mary Anne, because she and Sharon have a lot more interaction than in most BSC books. FF 11, I think, particularly gets into MA's feelings both about Sharon and Alma.
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Post by aln1982 on Feb 17, 2008 16:24:44 GMT -5
^ Thanks. I usually don't like the FF but haven't tried those about MA. Maybe those would be good. I would like to read more about those feelings of MA's.
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Post by greer on Feb 17, 2008 17:07:50 GMT -5
i definitely agree that you'd probably like the MA books, aln--they don't focus so much on baby-sitting, but at least they also don't focus on a silly fight over a boy. they're mostly about the schafer-spier family relationship, and also MA trying to get people to stop trying to get her to date someone after she breaks up with logan.
i really like them and think they really show mary anne growing, and are books i like to refer to when thinking of ma's characterization because i think they really hint at what ma will grow up to be like.
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Post by aln1982 on Feb 17, 2008 20:24:15 GMT -5
^ Those sound much better than the Stacey and Claud FF books. ; D I still have two CA Diaries sitting here, though, that I'm trying to find time to read....
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