Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2007 22:43:03 GMT -5
I just thought of this recently. There were already some threads about Ann addressing feminism and gender in the BSC. But I've observed that she seems to be fighting many other stereotypes using the characters:
1) Claudia (the only Asian in the group) is a struggling student, and she says in several places, "I hate math and science." She has an artistic talent that isn't music, and likes rock and roll (fighting the Asian-violinist stereotype).
(Doesn't explain Janine though, who is offensively stereotypical as an Asian nerd).
2) Stacey (the blonde fashion plate) is also the smartest, "math whiz," etc. Counteracting the stereotype of the blonde Barbie "math is hard."
3) Mallory has a large family but they are not religious.
4) Mallory has a boyfriend (Ben), counteracting the idea that the awkward, glasses/braces girl in the class can't be attractive to guys.
5) Kristy's family is rich but not snobby; in fact they hate the local snobs. Watson is a millionaire without being snobby about it.
I didn't read that far into the Abby books, so I have no idea if Ann tries to counteract any Jewish stereotypes. Please fill me in if she does. Dawn....well she is a pretty typical California stereotype, so I'm not sure there's a message with her or not.
I'm having trouble thinking of others for the time being. Anyone else come up with some?
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msstock87
Sitting For The Braddocks
Here Comes The Bride!
Created by Rie.
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Post by msstock87 on Aug 30, 2007 22:52:30 GMT -5
Wow..that is some interesting points I never really thought about. I wonder if she did those on purpose.
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Post by booboobrewer on Aug 30, 2007 23:35:40 GMT -5
Another...Logan is a popular jock but also supposed to be a sweet, sensitive, understanding guy.
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Post by morbiddadestiny on Aug 31, 2007 0:26:42 GMT -5
^ god, logan is such a mary sue.
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Post by greer on Aug 31, 2007 0:39:27 GMT -5
^I don't agree. Logan is a whiny possessive jerk. Maybe up until ma and the search for tigger he was a mary sue. then he sucked.
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alula
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Post by alula on Aug 31, 2007 2:42:54 GMT -5
The BSC is kind of schizophrenic when it comes to stereotypes, isn't it? On the one hand, you have the really obvious, clear-cut anti-stereotypes like the ones listed in the first post, and then you have California where everyone is blonde and vegetarian, and New York where everyone is superfashionable.
A few random stereotype thoughts--I've thought about this before, but I'm drawing a blank now. But I think part of Logan's niche is just "OMG! Boys can be baby-sitters, y'all!"
I think the Kilbournes are actually kind of a stereotypical "rich family with problems behind closed doors," (like, say, Bree's family on Desperate Housewives) but it's hard to know how much of that is in the text and how much of that is fandom inference.
With regard to Abby, I guess if you draw the Jewish stereotypes pretty wide there might be a few she runs up against--she's athletic rather than academically inclined, and she's definitely not part of the "princess" stereotype--can you imagine Abby getting a nose job?
You might be able to say that there's a general theme of "different" or even opposite people being paired off as best friends or couples--Kristy and Mary Anne, Richard and Sharon, the requisite "Mallory's white and Jessi's black," even Abby and Anna--which might in a broad way be considered part of an anti-stereotyping idea, that these differences aren't a bar to those relationships. But that's such a broad theme of YA literature I don't know if it can be considered something specific to the BSC.
Also, ballerinas may now be black, but the ballet teachers must all have French accents. C'est vrai, ça!
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Post by aln1982 on Aug 31, 2007 7:47:10 GMT -5
I think rather than trying to actually fight the stereotypes, the books attempt not to conform to them (but fail sometimes in cases like Dawn and the WLKC) but try to create a set of interesting, well rounded, and diverse characters. I don't think it was a conscious effort to go against stereotypes as much as it was not to conform to them (if that makes sense).
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starrynight
Sitting For The Kuhns
The Royal Diner of Pizza Express
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Post by starrynight on Aug 31, 2007 10:11:37 GMT -5
^ I agree.
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Post by greer on Aug 31, 2007 10:53:28 GMT -5
Abby is a comedian though, which is a jewish stereotype.
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alula
Sitter-In-Training
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Post by alula on Aug 31, 2007 17:27:41 GMT -5
^ah, good point. I completely blanked on that one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2007 17:31:07 GMT -5
The BSC is kind of schizophrenic when it comes to stereotypes, isn't it? On the one hand, you have the really obvious, clear-cut anti-stereotypes like the ones listed in the first post, and then you have California where everyone is blonde and vegetarian, and New York where everyone is superfashionable. A few random stereotype thoughts--I've thought about this before, but I'm drawing a blank now. But I think part of Logan's niche is just "OMG! Boys can be baby-sitters, y'all!" I think the Kilbournes are actually kind of a stereotypical "rich family with problems behind closed doors," (like, say, Bree's family on Desperate Housewives) but it's hard to know how much of that is in the text and how much of that is fandom inference. With regard to Abby, I guess if you draw the Jewish stereotypes pretty wide there might be a few she runs up against--she's athletic rather than academically inclined, and she's definitely not part of the "princess" stereotype--can you imagine Abby getting a nose job? You might be able to say that there's a general theme of "different" or even opposite people being paired off as best friends or couples--Kristy and Mary Anne, Richard and Sharon, the requisite "Mallory's white and Jessi's black," even Abby and Anna--which might in a broad way be considered part of an anti-stereotyping idea, that these differences aren't a bar to those relationships. But that's such a broad theme of YA literature I don't know if it can be considered something specific to the BSC. Also, ballerinas may now be black, but the ballet teachers must all have French accents. C'est vrai, ça! Very well said!! I've often thought that about the contrasting friendships as well. How many Kristy's and Mary anne's do we know in real life who are best friends? Or even the fact that all the girls were friends with one another, despite all their differences. That seems to be a big message. In my middle school, the Staceys and Claudias picked on the Kristys, Mary Anne's, Dawns, and Abbys mercilessly. So it can be refreshing to read a book showing you that it doesn't have to be that way. Your point about race is good too. Jessi isn't "stereotypically black," as in, athletic and hanging out only with other blacks in middle school. Her best friend is white, and that's emphasized too.
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Amalia
Sitting For The Braddocks
Her Original Point of View
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Post by Amalia on Sept 1, 2007 0:38:21 GMT -5
That whole best friends thing where the collective is made out of a bunch of different kinds of people reminds of Bratz. Other "different people being paired off" (may or may not be true due to my hazy memory) Becca - more indoor, t.v. watching type, clingy (to Jessi) Jessi - outdoor type, doesn't like t.v., independent (as others have said), athletic
Karen - obnoxious Andrew - quiet
^ I'll stop that now
One, that I think may just be me is Kristy, liking to babysit. From my experience, Tomboys usually don't like to be tied down caring for children, of which I thought was a stereotype of them. They are more into finding something fun to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 11:46:48 GMT -5
One, that I think may just be me is Kristy, liking to babysit. From my experience, Tomboys usually don't like to be tied down caring for children, of which I thought was a stereotype of them. They are more into finding something fun to do. I hadn't thought of that one! Yes, tomboys are usually stereotyped as very non-nurturing. Then again, isn't there an Abby book (if I recall, she was the other tomboy) where she says something demeaning about women giving up careers to raise kids? That seemed like a typical tomboy-feminist stereotypical thing to say, so once in awhile Ann goes back to the stereotype. Then again, Abby liked to babysit too, so go figure!!
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Post by aln1982 on Sept 1, 2007 16:53:26 GMT -5
I don't know about tomboys not wanting to be stay-at-home moms. Maybe that is true for some but my mom was a really big tomboy (still kind of is - she still has short hair, prefers being outside and sports, doesn't wear jewelry, makeup, etc.) but was a stay-at home mom and didn't mind at all. She's also a teacher so I don't think tomboys don't necessarily like doing things with kids. I just think they don't do things that are considered "feminine" like worry about hair, makeup, etc because this interferes with athletic activities and things like that. I think I'm getting off topic wtih this, though, and probably not making much sense again ;D Anyway, just think the girls have their own traits - some that conform to stereotypes and some that go against them - just because of differences in their personalities, background, etc. Kind of like real people ;D
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Post by sotypical42483 on Sept 2, 2007 0:18:04 GMT -5
i'm gonna def agree with marianspier about claud and stacey being friends with kristy, ma, mal, etc. that is the biggest thing for me in the books that is obviously trying to fight the norm. in middle school the girls in the bsc just would not be friends with one another. the best friends would probably still be paired up (i disagree that kristy and ma being friends is strange. if they hadn't grown up together i'd agree but i think their friendship is has such solid roots that them being friends as teens isn't odd), but other than that, it would never happen. you would never see someone as supa cool as stacey walking to school with dorky mallory pike.
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