oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,251
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Post by oldhickory on Nov 21, 2018 10:30:56 GMT -5
You know, Dawn was pretty OOC. For someone who's always described as a real individual, she seems to always be changing herself for someone. It's not just here. She did it in Dawn and the Older Boy, too. It's always about a guy. I just reread this book, but I feel like I should have read Older Boy first. There are SO many similarities and callbacks and I needed the refresher I've always thought that the plot was recycled, but I'm wondering now if Dawn's experience with Travis is the reason she acted to crazy (not just a repeat). She really liked him, but he didn't like her that much and always wanted to change her. Maybe she decided to change herself preemptively to prevent Lewis from finding her plain or ordinary. Even if she thought Travis was a jerk and he should have let her be herself, maybe she really did think that she needed to be more glamorous in a relationship. A bad experience or bad relationship can really shake people, even someone normally confident like Dawn.
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LovelyDay
New To Stoneybrook
just a sweet girl
Posts: 137
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Post by LovelyDay on Nov 21, 2018 12:04:49 GMT -5
^I completely agree with you old hickory! I never even thought about relating Dawn with Lewis to Dawn with Travis, and how she felt the need to be more glamorous.
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livvy
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 394
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Post by livvy on Dec 14, 2019 6:20:04 GMT -5
If it's one thing I don't get is why do girls change their looks and personality for a guy? It never works and this is what Dawn is doing. She should have just been herself.
And since when Mary Anne was an expert on fashion and boys? I thought Stacey and Claudia were. Not shy sensitive MA. I think the ghost writer got the girls mixed up.
Of course let's chuck in a fat kid. Especially a fat kid who does nothing to help himself ! All he did was whine and stuff his face. No wonder his parents think so little of him.
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,251
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Post by oldhickory on Mar 3, 2020 9:58:29 GMT -5
It's been a few months since you made this post, but I'm a little confused by it. You say it's silly for Dawn to change and she should just have been herself, but when Norman is just being himself, that means his parents are justified in treating him poorly? Why is it expected that Norman make changes to better himself but Dawn is ridiculous for doing the same thing? Is it different because Dawn is trying to change her personal style while Norman is dealing with weight? To me those don't seem too different. They are both deciding how they want to look and feel and they're going after it.
To be fair, I found everyone in this book to be stupid and over the top, but the point stands.
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LadyDru
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 373
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Post by LadyDru on Mar 19, 2020 12:45:29 GMT -5
One of my favorite Dawn books..though she was too pushy with the food thing as usual...I liked the outfit she wore to the airport and her answering Heavy Metal and Pop in class was hilarious..had me cracking up..I know Mary Anne didn't mean anything hurtful, but I think she should have at least told Dawn she was fine the way she was, or at least leave her alone. The subplot was nice, too..sad, though. I like Norman, he's a sweet kid...also, his issue is common for overweight ppl as a whole, whether they're children or adult..the more they're nagged about their eating habits, the worse they get (although in my omnivorous days, it did the opposite...I face unnecessary concern from ppl even now as a vegan if I eat a frozen vegan meal and I eat 50% raw which I am sure will be an issue for people..it doesn't move me though..can't win for losing.) And I do believe it is stupid to have junk food in the house if the Hills were against Norman eating it..like, if it's wrong for him, it's wrong for ALL. I loved it when he ripped up the pictures.
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Post by merrymelody on Jun 19, 2020 14:38:50 GMT -5
You know, Dawn was pretty OOC. For someone who's always described as a real individual, she seems to always be changing herself for someone. It's not just here. She did it in Dawn and the Older Boy, too. It's always about a guy. In Dawn's Portrait, she's described as a kid as not caring about environmentalism, health food or playing with guns at all. She adopted those characteristics when she met Sunny. So I guess she is just kind of a chameleon, she meets someone and then alters herself to be like them.
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Post by sparklymouse on Mar 25, 2022 15:31:05 GMT -5
Dawn looks cute. That picture of Lewis looks like a cousin of mine. They look like two strung out homeless kids.
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Post by hurricanebill on Mar 26, 2022 3:39:57 GMT -5
What on earth? 😂 I have a soft spot for this book. I love Dawn. This would make a fun episode if they ever bring it back.
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,251
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Post by oldhickory on Mar 28, 2022 9:14:38 GMT -5
I would also enjoy seeing the pinching scene on camera. I think Netflix Dawn (especially the first one) would be too self-assured though, and I don't know how well they would translate it.
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Post by sparklymouse on Apr 29, 2022 13:43:44 GMT -5
I like her shirt. At first glance I thought it was covered in crabs, lol. The faucet fixtures are extremely tall. Titles: Diane’s appointment An exciting appointment for Betty Dawn and the first date My New, Delicious Self (Lol. Confident.)
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livvy
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 394
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Post by livvy on May 12, 2022 13:13:33 GMT -5
The Hills were awful to Norman. They should have been supportive of him not critical and bossy.
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Post by wistfuldreamer86 on May 26, 2022 19:04:22 GMT -5
I don't think it's that weird that Dawn went through this phase. 1) She's only 13 and you aren't that sure of yourself at that age, no matter how mature the girls seem to be. 2) You're still figuring yourself out at 13 and even as you get older. 3) You can be secure about some things but not others. Dawn didn't really go out with anyone so it makes sense she doesn't know how to be around guys. Again, she's 13. 4) I think the other girls view Dawn as an individual who does things her own way, doesn't mean that's how she really is deep down. You can only know so much about a person. 5) It's easy to be yourself around friends, but not necessarily around someone you're romantically interested in.
I actually really liked Dawn in this one. I could relate to her insecurities and I liked seeing that side of her character. And I liked that she learned to just be herself around guys, not just her friends. And well, this was seriously a hilarious book. The bits with the girls on the double date were hilarious. Mary Anne was being a bit overbearing but it was still funny. And I think Mary Anne did want to help Dawn but really didn't know how to do that so she relied on those silly teen magazines most teen girls read.
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,251
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Post by oldhickory on May 29, 2022 14:38:20 GMT -5
I think the other girls view Dawn as an individual who does things her own way, doesn't mean that's how she really is deep down. You can only know so much about a person. Agree. It's the same as when people say single moms are "so strong and independent." It's a nice sentiment and fine to say, but it's also a lot of pressure. Maybe those people are tired of always having to be in charge. Maybe Dawn would have felt less pressure to handle everything on her own if her friends weren't always complimenting her on her independence.
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Post by oldmeanie on Aug 22, 2022 13:58:56 GMT -5
I was so looking forward to this one! It's definitely among the most entertaining books in the series. I laughed at how freaking awkward Dawn is. Even just, "Hi," then realizing she didn't mention his name and saying, "Hi, Lewis." Then she's trying to at "cool" by chewing gum at a BSC meeting and cracking jokes in science class. Wtf. All classic stuff.
Soooooo much food in this book! I want to try the peanut butter logs, tabouli, and red bean ice cream the most. Omg. I'm glad that the BSC gave Dawn's food a chance at the New Years party. In most books, it seems like they're all, "Ew gross" about her diet, especially Kristy and Mary Anne.
I have no idea why Mary Anne chose Gone With the Wind. I've actually never seen it, but I know it's not exactly a lighthearted movie and is very long. It's just an odd date movie, especially for 13 year olds. But it made for a hilarious chapter. I felt SO embarrassed for Dawn, but it's hard not to laugh.
Mary Anne was a tool in this book though. She seemed SO out of character, especially when she was pinching Dawn each time she made a "mistake." Am I the only one who was like, who is this girl? You'd think "sensitive" Mary Anne would say she's fine the way she is.
I always thought Dawn's modified clothes sounded horrible aside from the tiedyed tights lol.
Their actual date is entertaining too. Dawn's meal sounds great. I'm hungry now. Luckily, I actually have hummus in the fridge lol (it's got everything seasoning in it. It's great).
The Norman Hill plot was one of the better subplots by this point (beats the dumb toilet monster any day), but omg is it infuriating. His family is HORRIBLE! Sarah is an insufferable, cruel brat until the very last chapter where she does a 180. And it's no wonder Norman snacks so much when they have dinner at 8. Imo that seems very late for kids. I would've passed out if I had to wait that long. Sure it seems Mrs. Hill works kind of late, but Mr. Hill works at home. He could've given them an earlier dinner or they could've had meals ready to hear up earlier. Maybe I'm making too big a deal about this, but it seems crazy to make kids that young wait that long if they have a standard school schedule.
Why did they have all that junk food in the first place? And they focused TOO MUCH on his weight, so much that his good points were overshadowed. It feels like a version of emotional abuse to me.
Claudia also sort of pissed me off in this. Where does she come from telling someone not to eat junk food when she snacks on it every day? I see this irl. A thin person can binge half a pizza and no one bats an eye, but if an overweight person dares to eat even a slice or a piece of candy, people are snide about it. Yeah, not cool, and this is coming from a thin person.
Stacey and Dawn were much more sensitive in regards to Norman, which was nice. He does seem like a really nice kid, which is a miracle given his family.
Whew. Didn't expect to go on a rant. I just felt so bad for Norman. Overall, this book is such a classic and I can apparently remember about every detail from it lol.
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Post by sparklymouse on Aug 22, 2022 17:55:03 GMT -5
I had to look it up. Gone With the Wind is 4 hours long. I can barely make it through a 2 hour movie at home, with unlimited snacks and a pause button.
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