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Post by sparklymouse on May 3, 2021 19:48:18 GMT -5
I think Dawn went stag a lot, and they made that part of her laid-back ways. To be fair, every dance that they had was made to sound like this big formal affair that you more traditionally think of going to with a date. It wasn't a weird rule of the school or anything that it was couples only. It was just them wanting dates.
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cnj
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Post by cnj on May 3, 2021 22:44:36 GMT -5
That's one area where they went overboard on the dating thing.
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Post by m0drnmoonlight on May 4, 2021 12:27:05 GMT -5
I think that's part of it. When she's narrating her own story, you tend to side with her and understand her perspective. When she was a babysitting charge and the BSCers would go on and on about how funny/cute/smart/imaginative she was while ignoring her causing mayhem, that's when I'd get annoyed haha. Another thing as an adult I was surprised by was how for all the dances, they HAD to have dates and it was a big deal if they went stag. The only school dance everyone tried to have dates for was prom, in my experience. Everyone went to dances alone or as a group of friends. I think this was Ann's growing up in the 60s showing. I don't remember them making it a big deal if they went stag, at least later in the series it was more viewed as more normal. You're right there, there's a lot of ways Ann was writing as if it was the 60s again. I'm currently doing Kristy's Big Day for my blog and in the beginning when they're talking about the Final Fling, Mary Anne is all worried about showing up to the dance alone (since this is pre-Logan) and I always found that odd. I know Mary Anne's shy but at school dances when I was growing up, EVERYONE went on their own or like a group of friends attended together. And Claudia and Stacey are talking about which boys they're going with like it's prom and they're not seventh graders going to a "normal" school dance. Same with the book when Logan talks about giving Mary Anne a RING. I forget which book that was. Was Ann trying to make it like getting pinned like they sing about in Bye Bye Birdie?
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Post by cnj on May 4, 2021 13:19:21 GMT -5
I don't remember them making it a big deal if they went stag, at least later in the series it was more viewed as more normal. You're right there, there's a lot of ways Ann was writing as if it was the 60s again. I'm currently doing Kristy's Big Day for my blog and in the beginning when they're talking about the Final Fling, Mary Anne is all worried about showing up to the dance alone (since this is pre-Logan) and I always found that odd. I know Mary Anne's shy but at school dances when I was growing up, EVERYONE went on their own or like a group of friends attended together. And Claudia and Stacey are talking about which boys they're going with like it's prom and they're not seventh graders going to a "normal" school dance. Same with the book when Logan talks about giving Mary Anne a RING. I forget which book that was. Was Ann trying to make it like getting pinned like they sing about in Bye Bye Birdie? I wonder...perhaps Mary Anne wanted to go with a friend and feared that going by herself would attract even more attention to her. Yeh, they needed to tone it down a notch with the dates-for-dances mentality...that was one flaw in the otherwise great series.
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Post by CharlotteTJohanssen on May 4, 2021 14:23:03 GMT -5
I don't remember them making it a big deal if they went stag, at least later in the series it was more viewed as more normal. You're right there, there's a lot of ways Ann was writing as if it was the 60s again. I'm currently doing Kristy's Big Day for my blog and in the beginning when they're talking about the Final Fling, Mary Anne is all worried about showing up to the dance alone (since this is pre-Logan) and I always found that odd. I know Mary Anne's shy but at school dances when I was growing up, EVERYONE went on their own or like a group of friends attended together. And Claudia and Stacey are talking about which boys they're going with like it's prom and they're not seventh graders going to a "normal" school dance. Same with the book when Logan talks about giving Mary Anne a RING. I forget which book that was. Was Ann trying to make it like getting pinned like they sing about in Bye Bye Birdie? Yes! Honestly sometimes I think Ann is writing what she knows and itβs the fifties and sixties. Honestly that sounds like an interesting read but the series firmly puts itself in the 80-90s.
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Post by sparklymouse on May 4, 2021 16:52:29 GMT -5
Promise rings are still a thing, are they not? Not that Mary Anne needed one at 13.
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cnj
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Post by cnj on May 4, 2021 18:04:22 GMT -5
Promise rings are still a thing, are they not? Not that Mary Anne needed one at 13. I think so...but yeh, Mary Anne sure didn't need one, especially since she and Logan broke up for good late in the series.
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Post by fairy3lf2 on May 4, 2021 21:58:13 GMT -5
The always needing a date for a dance thing seemed weird to me but I didn't just notice it in BSC. Far from it. An episode of Step by Step (remember that show?) even portrayed Mark as a loser for going to a school dance alone. It was never the case with me and I never felt that I needed a date for anything. At my schools, people never went to dances with dates unless they were already dating. A part of me wanted it to be the case so I would have an excuse the ask a guy I liked out.
Re: Karen being less annoying books in books from her point of view: The recently departed Beverly Cleary did that very well. When I read her Henry books and Ramona and Beezus, I found Ramona really annoying (as intended). When I read books from her point of view, I sympathized with her so much.
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Post by cnj on May 4, 2021 23:52:20 GMT -5
Re: Karen being less annoying books in books from her point of view: The recently departed Beverly Cleary did that very well. When I read her Henry books and Ramona and Beezus, I found Ramona really annoying - as intended. When I read books from her point of view, I sympathized with her so much. Agreed...I also identified with Ramona because I'm a "little" sister myself with older sisters. I suspect if Ramona and Karen ever met, Ramona would have happy memories chatting with Karen. I imagine the Cleary characters as about fifteen or so years older than the BSC members.
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Post by fairy3lf2 on May 5, 2021 17:27:54 GMT -5
Re: Karen being less annoying books in books from her point of view: The recently departed Beverly Cleary did that very well. When I read her Henry books and Ramona and Beezus, I found Ramona really annoying - as intended. When I read books from her point of view, I sympathized with her so much. Agreed...I also identified with Ramona because I'm a "little" sister myself with older sisters. That's interesting because I'm a big sister (though I have brothers rather than sisters) so I identified with Beezus. I read a blog called Jesus Beezus awhile ago and was annoyed at the way the writer talked about Ramona like she was perfect and Beezus was just a b****. One thing I like about the books is that the characters are multifaceted and nobody is all good or bad. Ramona IS a pain in the neck but she also doesn't mean to a pest and is friendly and fun. She also matures through the course of the series. Beezus can be mean to Ramona but her frustrations are valid. She matures in her handling of Ramona too. This is getting into Beverly Cleary territory though.
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Post by cnj on May 5, 2021 18:55:25 GMT -5
Another thing that strikes me as an adult re-reading the books...virtually no helicopter parenting among most Stoneybrook parents, which is a great relief.
Sure, Mary Anne's dad and Stacey's mum were a tad overprotective at first, but even they backed off, especially as the girls grew older and more independent.
I cannot imagine the BSC's parents stepping in to fill out the BSC's university applications or essays or sitting in with them, coaching them on uni interviews or job interviews or engineering a job for any of the main BSC through any "connections."
I also just can't ever imagine any of the BSC women having their parents pay for or plan their weddings for them.
In this day and age of too-frequent helicopter parenting, especially prevalent in the late 2009 decade, it's a breath of fresh air to re-read the BSC books and note the freedom most Stoneybrook kids, including the BSC have to make their own age-appropriate decisions, make mistakes and learn from them, plan their own events, organize their own teams, including sports teams without a hovering adult interfering or trying to control everything.
It's especially great to see the BSC's New York City trips...sure, they usually have at least one adult with them in middle school, but they are allowed to explore parts of thr city on their own.
It was refreshing to re-read about the then-seven-year-old Karen's first solo plane trip.
Sure, she had a steward supervising her, but she pretty much learned to fly on her own and entertain herself.
If the helicopter parents who are doing their kids' uni essays, attending their young adult offspring's interviews, who are orchestrating jobs for their grown kids through "connections" and who are paying for and planning their "children's" weddings would take a hint from Stoneybrook's parents, the world would be far better off and we would not be seeing the epidemic of unhealthy dependency, depression, wedding wars...including bridezillas and groomzillas...and addictions to tranquilizers among so many young adults today.
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Post by fairy3lf2 on May 5, 2021 20:27:53 GMT -5
I've read and studied a lot of children's literature and helicopter parenting seems to be pretty uncommon in those stories. Not only is it wish fulfillment but young characters have to be able to do things for themselves and solve problems for themselves for the stories to work. In fact, I think it often goes too far the other way when kids do not go to adults about problems when they should (like when somebody is in danger).
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Post by CharlotteTJohanssen on May 5, 2021 20:30:34 GMT -5
I've read and studied a lot of children's literature and helicopter parenting seems to be pretty uncommon in those stories. Not only is it wish fulfillment but young characters have to be able to do things for themselves and solve problems for themselves for the stories to work. In fact, I think it often goes too far the other way when kids do not go to adults about problems when they should (like when somebody is in danger). I feel like the mystery is exactly this! I really wish we did get more parental involvement in the series, like Mary Anne bonding more Sharon. Or Claudia's relationship with her dad, I really liked that she brought up to that gala in mystery 11.
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cnj
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Post by cnj on May 5, 2021 21:28:14 GMT -5
I've read and studied a lot of children's literature and helicopter parenting seems to be pretty uncommon in those stories. Not only is it wish fulfillment but young characters have to be able to do things for themselves and solve problems for themselves for the stories to work. In fact, I think it often goes too far the other way when kids do not go to adults about problems when they should - like when somebody is in danger. Some books did make the error of parental underinvolvement. One prime example is Sweet Valley High students going out on dates on school nights, especially during the Senior Year series. Far too many school-night parties and dating...I often wondered Aren't their parents worried about them and their schoolwork?Also, the excessive dating in too many series...the parents needed to step in and place limits there. Isolated "lovers lanes" are no place for teenagers to make out...if teenagers want to make out or do whatever...and only on weekend nights...the parents should insure that there is a safe, private place at home. For the most part, the BSC series didn't stumble into that error of too little parental oversight and of dating and partying on school nights. I say save the dates and parties for weekend nights and nights on school holidays. I feel like the mystery is exactly this! I really wish we did get more parental involvement in the series, like Mary Anne bonding more Sharon. Or Claudia's relationship with her dad, I really liked that she brought up to that gala in mystery 11. I sort of wish there had been more on the bond between Mary Anne and Sharon also...they had such a sweet mum-daughter relationship. There is one touching scene in Mary Anne and the Little Princess where Mary Anne and several BSC members took a day trip to NYC that Wednesday before Thanksgiving and they come home rather late...around ten or so...Mary Anne finds Sharon at the kitchen table poring over old family pictures. They both heartily miss Dawn who has moved back to Cali. Sharon warmly invites Mary Anne to sit by her and muses over baby pictures of Dawn and Jeff. Mary Anne's eyes fill with tears as she is moved by how much her stepmum misses Dawn and Jeff. They both hug, then cry for a while...it's such a touching, sweet scene...it would have been nice to see more scenes like this. But overall, the BSC series did a good job with having the right sort of parental involvment for most of Stoneybrook. That's why I see the BSC ladies growing up to be well-adjusted, independent women who work their own way through university, make their own fortunes as adults, pay for and plan their own weddings and who pay their own way through life.
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Post by sparklymouse on Oct 4, 2021 16:16:34 GMT -5
I never thought about Karen's eyesight. She just needed bifocals, right? She was maybe a little too young to use them properly, so she got the two pairs instead. They made it seem like she had a traumatic eye disease.
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