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Post by Kylie90210 on Aug 9, 2007 19:55:27 GMT -5
I thought the Ashley storyline was broing personally. I don't dislike her, I just got annoyed at her. But also feel sorry for her.
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Post by aln1982 on Aug 9, 2007 23:50:19 GMT -5
^ I never really felt sorry for Ashley but just didn't care all that much for her or about her. I was glad to see her show up again as a main character in Live from WTSO.
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Post by sotypical42483 on Aug 10, 2007 11:50:14 GMT -5
I felt sorry for her. She didn't have any friends and people pretty much ostracized her. I suppose she brought it upon herself a bit by immersing herself so heavily in her art, but you know people (cough Stacey cough) took one look at her and immediately wrote her off.
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Post by aln1982 on Aug 13, 2007 23:47:40 GMT -5
Just reread New Girl and didn't feel sorry at all for Ashley. In fact, she seemed - just as MA put it - kind of stuck up. I think Ashley didn't have friends because she didn't want - or maybe didn't know how - to make friends. She wasn't even interested in being Claudia's friend but said herself that she was Claud's "mentor". She almost acted like she felt superior to Claudia, which I think might be one reason that Claud was so awed by her. I don't think that Stacey necessarily wrote her off because of her appearance but because she picked up on her standoffish attitude. I thought Stacey only made the comments about Ashley's outfits later. I also thought that Ashley was kind of a brat to the Rowdowsky boys and just in general. I did like her much better in WSTO but definitely didn't like her in New Girl. This time I read it at least ;D
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alula
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 406
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Post by alula on Aug 14, 2007 22:25:09 GMT -5
In retrospect, New Girl bothers me, because I think the subtextual message goes against the "official" message of the BSC--I think this book really reinforces peer pressure to conform via punishment for trying something new and the idea that it's important to be a certain "kind" of teenager, and that there's just something wrong with you if you aren't.
Some kids don't need, or want, a big group of friends, and it doesn't mean they're unhappy, or that they aren't kind people. (For people who are strong introverts, (like me!) huge amounts of unstructured time with people are literally draining--my energy usually comes from getting to be by myself, and always has, and a lot of people assume that means I'm unfriendly or antisocial). Some kids are fulfilled by non-stereotypically teenage things, and really don't enjoy reading teen magazines or hanging out at the mall and that doesn't mean they're missing out on something. (I had someone tell me once I was "deprived of a childhood" because I didn't watch Scooby-Do and Inspector Gadget. Because I didn't like them, and I chose to read instead. That didn't mean I didn't get to be four, it just meant I was a four-year-old who liked books and coloring better than cartoons). I never got the idea that anyone but Ashley was directing the amount of time she spent on her art--she's not Rosie Wilder with stage parents. (And she does read, too, since she'd read all the books the English classes were covering). Some teenagers are serious-minded, and not as an affectation.
I don't think Ashley's a saint or anything, but a lot of the ways the book condemns her don't sit well with me.
In a way, this book is probably very realistic in spirit, of how middle school girls act toward each other. The idea that making a new friend makes you a "traitor"? Oh, dear.
Oh, and the use of the word "sculptress" is lame. Seriously, who says that any more? Or even in the 80s? And yes, Claudia "sheep are IN" Kishi is the last chick who needs to be saying someone else's clothes look weird.
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Amalia
Sitting For The Braddocks
Her Original Point of View
Posts: 3,664
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Post by Amalia on Aug 15, 2007 0:45:58 GMT -5
^ I wish that I got started on liking to read at an early age. It would have been helpful as I grew up, like for school and so forth.
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Post by aln1982 on Aug 15, 2007 17:23:35 GMT -5
In retrospect, New Girl bothers me, because I think the subtextual message goes against the "official" message of the BSC--I think this book really reinforces peer pressure to conform via punishment for trying something new and the idea that it's important to be a certain "kind" of teenager, and that there's just something wrong with you if you aren't. Some kids don't need, or want, a big group of friends, and it doesn't mean they're unhappy, or that they aren't kind people. (For people who are strong introverts, (like me!) huge amounts of unstructured time with people are literally draining--my energy usually comes from getting to be by myself, and always has, and a lot of people assume that means I'm unfriendly or antisocial). Some kids are fulfilled by non-stereotypically teenage things, and really don't enjoy reading teen magazines or hanging out at the mall and that doesn't mean they're missing out on something. (I had someone tell me once I was "deprived of a childhood" because I didn't watch Scooby-Do and Inspector Gadget. Because I didn't like them, and I chose to read instead. That didn't mean I didn't get to be four, it just meant I was a four-year-old who liked books and coloring better than cartoons). I never got the idea that anyone but Ashley was directing the amount of time she spent on her art--she's not Rosie Wilder with stage parents. (And she does read, too, since she'd read all the books the English classes were covering). Some teenagers are serious-minded, and not as an affectation. I don't think Ashley's a saint or anything, but a lot of the ways the book condemns her don't sit well with me. In a way, this book is probably very realistic in spirit, of how middle school girls act toward each other. The idea that making a new friend makes you a "traitor"? Oh, dear. Oh, and the use of the word "sculptress" is lame. Seriously, who says that any more? Or even in the 80s? And yes, Claudia "sheep are IN" Kishi is the last chick who needs to be saying someone else's clothes look weird. Agree. I also didn’t (and don’t) care about being “part of the group” and having lots of friends and actually prefer being alone a lot of times. I’ve always been very independent. But this is why I said that I don’t feel sorry for Ashley – it’s her (or my) choice. I don’t fault her for being so dedicated to her interest. What I do fault her for is acting almost superior to everyone else because of it (this is the impression I got from her) and not really respecting other people’s interests. The scene at the Rowdowskys when she seemed to scold Claud for “wasting her time” baby-sitting is an example of this. I also agree that middle school girls – and people in general - can be awful about ostracizing people for being different. I don’t see that really being the case here, though. The way I saw it, Claudia and Ashley ostracized themselves by not wanting to hang out with the BSC. That’s what I meant when I said I could see how the BSC felt abandoned and bad. It was almost like Claudia was telling them that they came second to her art and to Ashley. When I posted, it was kind of random babbling I realized so hopefully this clarified it a little ;D I just thought MA was right when she said Ashley was stuck up. And I can see how the BSC felt like Claudia was maybe not necessarily a “traitor” (though I loved the song ;D) but definitely abandoning them, including shrugging off her responsibilities of meetings because she had “better and more fun things to do.” I don’t think this book really presents a bad message but that’s just me.
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Post by booboobrewer on Aug 15, 2007 18:43:41 GMT -5
See, I didn't quite see Ashley as stuck-up. I'm not sure why. I know we're supposed to think so because of the way she's presented and because the BSC does, but I agree that she did seem very serious-minded and focused. I can see how in a middle school setting her personality type would be a little off-putting. She's a little like Emily Bernstein, very sure of what she wants to do in life, but more reserved and tends to pick her friends carefully. She placed a lot of emphasis on what was worth her time and what wasn't. We do see traces of her vulnerability when she questions if Claudia values their friendship. I think Ashley maybe realized the extent of her devotion to her art later and tries to loosen up, by taking that job at the radio station. She was still kind of uptight and haughty in that book until she and Claudia finally figured out how to have a good working relationship, but I think she's just really serious and reflective.
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Post by aln1982 on Aug 16, 2007 8:33:18 GMT -5
^ I used to feel the same way about Ashley but had a much more negative view of her this time when I read New Girl. Maybe it was just the mood I was in ;D I'll have to see what I think when I reread. I didn't mind her as much in WSTO and liked the part where she left Claudia the candy bar. I also liked that she did end up sitting at the BSC table and actually talking and listening to them in the end of New Girl.
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alula
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 406
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Post by alula on Aug 16, 2007 18:06:20 GMT -5
Part of my reaction to New Girl may be that I think it falls in the period of time in which I think the BSC are at their most cliquish and standoffish themselves--around #10 they put a big emphasis on everyone sitting together (I always wonder if the Shillaber twins felt "dropped"), and I always thought the way they treated Mallory in #14 had a lot more to do with peer dynamics than actual "concern" about her fitness as a sitter. (I also recall the sitters being fairly judgmental and snippy towards Ashley from the beginning of the book, but I would have to look at the scenes to confirm. I do remember a lot of gratituous nastiness about her clothes, which certainly have nothing to do with anything.)
I also think Kristy, in her own way, frequently treats herself as an idea person and business woman with the self-importance with which Ashley defines herself as an artist, but she is never treated with anything like the nastiness the authorial voice takes to Ashley.
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Post by bscfan81 on Aug 17, 2007 10:41:46 GMT -5
And yes, Claudia "sheep are IN" Kishi is the last chick who needs to be saying someone else's clothes look weird. So true. Remember Claudia's "Under the Sea" outfit in Claudia & the Middle School Mystery?
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Rie
Sitting For The Newtons
Posts: 1,998
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Post by Rie on Mar 9, 2008 4:25:43 GMT -5
I was glad to see her show up again as a main character in Live from WTSO. Me too. I don't dislike her, I just got annoyed at her. But also feel sorry for her. Yeah,me too.
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supprazz
Sitting For The Newtons
Posts: 2,106
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Post by supprazz on Jun 2, 2009 12:50:51 GMT -5
well it was the 80's when stacey and claudia hated the bell bottoms and flares, which were a big no-no in the 80's. They became cool again in the 90's though, and Claudia was wearing them herself too on a few covers, Stacey and the Mystery at the Mall being an example.
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Post by booboobrewer on Jun 2, 2009 14:00:58 GMT -5
^What's funny about that, though, is that they never technically age, so there's no real distinction between 80s and 90s fashion.
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Post by sugarandspicexx on Jun 25, 2009 7:08:56 GMT -5
Ashley seemed a bit ott really. Yes, she was passionate about her art. But how likely at 13 is it that she's so caught up in it she can't see any thing outside it like making friends or having any other interests at all.. Although, her dedication and what sounded like great talent and her overall persona could have just been her being the artsy type who like to keep to themselves and are inwardly focused.
Thinking Claud didn't care about her or her art and wasn't "appreciative of such a fine talent mentoring her..." When she had anything to do with the BSC and baby sitting was unreasonable and a little up her self, but in some ways I can relate to her in being passionate about your chosen artform.
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