andrew
Sitter-In-Training
Posts: 353
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Post by andrew on Mar 22, 2016 14:36:24 GMT -5
Some elements were a little underdeveloped (I would have liked a little more Mary Anne interaction with Kristy) but still a really nice book. The image/idea of Mary Anne and the Arnolds rolling on the floor with laughter (was that slang back then?) was great.
Dawn is a little ridiculous at being jealous that MA and Richard were close but that's in-character and she admits she was more in the wrong. Also interesting that MA got OK with a bit of a white lie (pointing out that Richard suggested the trip be father-daughter, omitting that she suggested it be a secret). The other characters' motivations were a bit strange, I don't know if they also just disliked not being told or were upset that she was growing up, had acted independently or felt she did it to impress Logan or boys in general. Funny that in the end MA referred to Jessi and Mallory as "innocent bystanders" (and they were).
The subplot was a lot of fun and the resolution was nicely unexpectedly simple.
Too bad the friendship with Sabrina didn't work out. I think I interpret that Sabrina was trying to interest Carlos in dating middle schoolers in general and then met him or already knew him and was trying to convince him that going out with a middle schooler would be OK.
Dec 21, 2006 13:46:44 GMT -6 ringdings said: They make fun of MA when she mentioned that she was just thinking of getting her hair cut, but then they proceeded to ostracize her when she had the gall to actually do it without their "permission."
Good point for the view that they were upset that she did something they disapproved of rather than just because they weren't told. The senior members were pretty bad but not quite as much as they and MA were to Claudia in #12.
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Post by booboobrewer on Sept 21, 2016 15:24:21 GMT -5
One thing Mary Anne never mentions is follow-up cuts. It's just always "MA cut her hair into this cute short 'do awhile ago." She would have to maintain, and I doubt Richard would keep taking her back to the fancy salon where Joyce works. Probably she goes somewhere in town and that is why it becomes less attractive on some of the later covers
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Post by greer on Sept 21, 2016 20:52:19 GMT -5
Yeah, we do hear about Stacey getting repermed several times. Short hair has to be cut a lot.
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Post by virgoscorpio on Sept 22, 2016 12:06:20 GMT -5
That's a good thought! I also notice that the style changes as the fashion changes throughout the decade: shorter cut in the early 90s, growing out to a kind of flipped-inward bob in the late 90s.
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Post by Sideshowjazz1 on Oct 24, 2016 4:47:16 GMT -5
Rereading my post on this...I still just want to b*tch about the way the girls acted in this book. What is the point of ostracizing Mary Anne? And why ostracize her for getting new clothes, cosmetics and a haircut? I know Dawn felt betrayed because Mary Anne didn't tell her she was going to do it, but after she apologized to the other girls, they didn't explain why they'd acted that way. It's not like they didn't like the new look - it says that all the girls told Mary Anne that her hair looked awesome. Jessi and Mallory are by far the nicest characters for just staying out of it.
And where does Kristy get off being mad at Mary Anne for skipping meetings when she's treating her like a pariah. Again, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS GROUP? The club is actually pretty snobby. A member of the BSC can't make friends with someone outside the club, can't do anything new without consulting the other members...it's like a strict religious cult or something. The whole snob thing about the club with the exception of Jessi and Mallory crops up again in "Claudia, Queen of The Seventh Grade", but at least Claudia didn't apologize to the club for standing up for her younger friends. Same way that Mary Anne shouldn't have had to apologize for getting a makeover.
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,258
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Post by oldhickory on Oct 9, 2017 13:11:58 GMT -5
I just reread this book, and it jumped out at me that Richard and MA brought home Chinese food without calling home first. They all eat as soon as they get home (which makes sense, because the food is still hot), but that means it was probably already dinner time. What were Dawn and Sharon planning to do for dinner? It sounded like they hadn't even begun prepping anything else. I tend to plan my meals days in advance so my take on this may be off-base.
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mallorypike
Sitting For The Papadakis's
If I were thirteen instead of eleven, life would be a picnic...
Posts: 1,636
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Post by mallorypike on Oct 11, 2017 11:01:45 GMT -5
I’ve never read this book, but want to really badly! I love the books where the BSC is in ultimate b*tch mode.
I never plan my meals haha. I just eat whatever I feel like eating. I bet if I ever plan my meals, I’d change my mind a lot.
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Post by booboobrewer on Oct 14, 2017 20:46:16 GMT -5
Maybe Dawn and Sharon were just planning to eat salads or something?
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Post by booklover85 on Oct 19, 2017 22:54:02 GMT -5
Rereading my post on this...I still just want to b*tch about the way the girls acted in this book. What is the point of ostracizing Mary Anne? And why ostracize her for getting new clothes, cosmetics and a haircut? I know Dawn felt betrayed because Mary Anne didn't tell her she was going to do it, but after she apologized to the other girls, they didn't explain why they'd acted that way. It's not like they didn't like the new look - it says that all the girls told Mary Anne that her hair looked awesome. Jessi and Mallory are by far the nicest characters for just staying out of it. And where does Kristy get off being mad at Mary Anne for skipping meetings when she's treating her like a pariah. Again, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS GROUP? The club is actually pretty snobby. A member of the BSC can't make friends with someone outside the club, can't do anything new without consulting the other members...it's like a strict religious cult or something. The whole snob thing about the club with the exception of Jessi and Mallory crops up again in "Claudia, Queen of The Seventh Grade", but at least Claudia didn't apologize to the club for standing up for her younger friends. Same way that Mary Anne shouldn't have had to apologize for getting a makeover. Maybe the girls miss the days where Mary Anne wore braids and simple clothes and they hated Mary Anne for branching out, so they treated her like some kind of leper. I came up with a plot bunny (a sad one) where Mary Anne decides to make her so called friends happy by going back to braids and plain clothing.
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,258
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Post by oldhickory on Oct 20, 2017 9:31:03 GMT -5
I don't think this is necessarily the case in this book, but it's definitely A THING for some people to want others to fail so they don't become overshadowed or look bad. Some people don't have the willpower to make a change, and seeing other people commit to change can be tough to swallow. It forces them to realize that their faults/habits/thoughts are a result of their own choices. I saw an episode of one of those drug-related reality shows (I think it might have been Intervention on A&E) and there was a drug addict trying to get sober. His friends were actively encouraging him to do drugs at a party and they said "you know it's never going to last so you might as well party with us." They couldn't stand that he was strong enough to reject their lifestyle, so they sabotaged him to drag him back down to their level. He had a real shot at success and his friends were too selfish to allow that. It's like they assumed he thought he was better than them, and they didn't want him to be better than them.
Sometimes it's not even malicious or sabotage-y. I've experienced this personally when it comes to my eating habits. Sometimes people take my dietary preferences as a direct attack. I am not eating this way AT you, I'm just eating. But sometimes people feel like they need to justify their eating habits to me, or make a comment why they could never do it. It's just a defense mechanism that allows people to keep doing what they do without feeling guilty.
I feel like this was a long response and I got off topic a bit, but I can see why the BSC reacted this way, even though it's ridiculous and unfair. They liked Mary Anne when she listened to their advice and needed their input. But when she got a makeover without their blessing, they thought she was acting like she was better than them and didn't need them, and their reaction was out of hurt and not logic.
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Post by booboobrewer on Oct 20, 2017 17:46:36 GMT -5
Dawn summed it up: “you went from LL Bean to Cover Girl overnight.”
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Post by rabbitbongo on Oct 25, 2018 1:38:41 GMT -5
I think this is one of my favourite BSC books and it definitely does increase my dislike of Dawn!! How dare she be so cruel just because MA spent time with her father! Dawn says it’s because MA didn’t tell her about getting the new haircut, but Dawn went and got her ears pierced a second time on a spur of the moment in an earlier book.
I think that maybe Claudia and Stacey were jealous that MA was getting more male attention than them. Kristy was probably upset that her friend was becoming more grown up. None of this excuses their behaviour to MA though.
This book feels like #4 Mary Anne Saves the Day again, but that’s a good thing
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oldhickory
Sitting For The Arnolds
Heather Loves Boys and Gym
Posts: 3,258
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Post by oldhickory on Oct 27, 2018 9:36:57 GMT -5
^ I agree. Dawn was really horrible. I'm fairly insecure and if someone who I loved, and whose opinion of me meant a LOT, said something hurtful (about my appearance or character - Dawn did both), it would cut all the way down. Dawn exploited their closeness and used it to hurt and isolate Mary Anne.
I'm in the middle of Farewell Dawn right now, and it's pretty cool how that book mirrors this one. Here Dawn is jealous and petty because Mary Anne spent a day with her dad. In Farewell Dawn, Mary Anne is hurt and defensive because Dawn wants to spend more time with her dad. They both act as though spending time with your dad is a deliberate choice to leave the other one out. They seem to have some sort of weird relationship where they put each other first all the time, but on totally normal, non-malicious occasions where they go outside that, it's a horrible offense.
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Post by booklover85 on Oct 31, 2018 21:01:55 GMT -5
^ I agree. Dawn was really horrible. I'm fairly insecure and if someone who I loved, and whose opinion of me meant a LOT, said something hurtful (about my appearance or character - Dawn did both), it would cut all the way down. Dawn exploited their closeness and used it to hurt and isolate Mary Anne. I'm in the middle of Farewell Dawn right now, and it's pretty cool how that book mirrors this one. Here Dawn is jealous and petty because Mary Anne spent a day with her dad. In Farewell Dawn, Mary Anne is hurt and defensive because Dawn wants to spend more time with her dad. They both act as though spending time with your dad is a deliberate choice to leave the other one out. They seem to have some sort of weird relationship where they put each other first all the time, but on totally normal, non-malicious occasions where they go outside that, it's a horrible offense. I loved Dawn and Mary Anne as best friends, but after their parents got married, their relationship became more codependent and unhealthy. I wonder do both girls have "daddy issues"?
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cnj
Sitting For The Papadakis's
Posts: 1,708
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Post by cnj on Nov 1, 2018 9:14:35 GMT -5
^ I agree. Dawn was really horrible. I'm fairly insecure and if someone who I loved, and whose opinion of me meant a LOT, said something hurtful (about my appearance or character - Dawn did both), it would cut all the way down. Dawn exploited their closeness and used it to hurt and isolate Mary Anne. I'm in the middle of Farewell Dawn right now, and it's pretty cool how that book mirrors this one. Here Dawn is jealous and petty because Mary Anne spent a day with her dad. In Farewell Dawn, Mary Anne is hurt and defensive because Dawn wants to spend more time with her dad. They both act as though spending time with your dad is a deliberate choice to leave the other one out. They seem to have some sort of weird relationship where they put each other first all the time, but on totally normal, non-malicious occasions where they go outside that, it's a horrible offense. I loved Dawn and Mary Anne as best friends, but after their parents got married, their relationship became more codependent and unhealthy. I wonder do both girls have "daddy issues"? A little bit...but I think their stepsister relationship was fairly healthy. Their occasional fights were like most typical sibling fights and like any other sibling rivalry. Let's not pathologize this sibling relationship...one great thing is that Dawn and Mary Anne ALWAYS made up quickly after any fight.
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